Educating European Tech Leaders. Showing Them Poland's Potential.

Michał Karbowiak: Do you like Warsaw?

Prof. Matthias Mrożewski: I love it, even though I was born in Gdańsk and live in Berlin. I am a professor there, holding the Chair of International Entrepreneurship at ESCP Business School - the oldest business school in the world, founded in 1819.

Where does your love for the Polish capital come from?

I discovered Warsaw quite late, around 2004. It fascinated me instantly because Warsaw is a startup among European cities.

A startup among European cities?

Constantly under construction and in a dynamic process of change. It isn't a large corporation yet, like Paris or London. It is still searching for its final identity. Warsaw is buzzing with creativity; there is a lot happening. In that respect, it reminds me a bit of Berlin fifteen years ago. And from its history, young European entrepreneurs can learn a great deal.

For example, what?

Resilience, the drive to survive - a key factor in startups. In my business presentations, I use a picture of Warsaw from 1945, filled with rubble, and - by way of contrast - its modern skyline with a line of beautiful skyscrapers. It leaves an extraordinary impression on audiences, especially those unfamiliar with the details of Polish history.

Warsaw like a phoenix rising from the ashes?

Precisely. Poles could have moved the capital to Łódź or rebuilt it almost from scratch. They chose the latter, even though it wasn't the easier path by any means. It’s a very inspiring story for young entrepreneurs, especially today, when one has to face multiple crises at once: war, rising energy prices, international instability, and previously the pandemic. There isn't much of this "resilience" in the West. You can and should learn it from Poles.

Can one learn anything else?

Creativity and a problem-solving mindset. In this context, I like to tell the story of the InterContinental Hotel in Warsaw on Emilii Plater Street. Its construction was called into question because the structure would block sunlight for residents of a neighboring apartment block. So, the architects designed a "hole," a cutout in the building. If a problem like that had occurred in Berlin, for example, that hotel would never have been built.

Is Varso Tower an expression of Polish ambition or Polish insecurities? It features an 80-meter spire, arguably mostly to brag about having the tallest building in the European Union.

Ambition. Every city needs a symbol of economic development. Paris has the Eiffel Tower; Warsaw can have Varso Tower with its spire. To me, it's a positive message sent out to the world: we have succeeded, but we still have high aspirations, on a European scale as well.

The Rhine Group and Western Europe's Stagnation

To what extent are this success and these aspirations noticed and respected in Western European countries? Recently, there was a lot of noise about the absence of Poles in the initial lineup of the "Rhine Group" - Mario Draghi's think tank tasked with supporting the competitiveness of the EU economy.

It is strange, especially considering the economic success of Poland and Central and Eastern Europe in recent decades. I would have expected developmental ideas to originate from this very region. On the other hand, I have lived in Germany for over 35 years, and I understand the mindset in the West. There is no malice here.

No?

When Western European political and economic elites were taking shape after World War II, Poland simply was not at that table. From an economic standpoint, it is only now slowly appearing on the radar as an important player. It isn't that representatives of the "old" Europe want to exclude Poland. Rather, it happens that they simply don't think of it.

What can be done about that?

What was done in the case of the "Rhine Group." Thanks to a lobbying effort of sorts, Piotr Dąbkowski, co-founder of ElevenLabs, joined Draghi's group. Poland did not accept the initial unfavorable situation; it presented arguments, fought, and achieved its goal.

Piotr Moncarz, professor emeritus at Stanford University, recently said on the Biznes Klasa show: "The European bourgeois circles in Germany and France have stopped being creative. They are doing so well that they simply don't feel like trying anymore." Do you agree?

There is a kind of stagnation in the West, which is evident in economic indicators, for instance. However, we shouldn't rejoice over this, as it is not beneficial for Poland either. Ultimately, we are playing on the same team.

We should view Europe as a diverse startup team that is still searching for its operating model and must compete with players like the US or China, who have already found theirs. Our team's diversity leads to friction, but - if managed well and if we work together - it can release immense positive energy and help us engineer better solutions than homogeneous teams can.

In his book "Europe's Growth Champion. Insights from the Economic Rise of Poland", Prof. Marcin Piątkowski wrote, perhaps slightly poetically: "The European Union is an example to others of how the world should be organized. It is a better example than hyper-capitalist America or authoritarian China. The fate of humanity depends on whether the rest of the world becomes more European, or more Chinese or American."

I agree. Within the European team, countries differ in their economic situations, specific interests, and motivations. But the goal should be a strong, united Europe. The European Union, with all its flaws, creates a framework that allows countries to develop, live in peace, and pursue their interests, but through dialogue with one another. It is a unique system on a global scale.

How ESCP Educates Future European Elites

As a professor at ESCP Business School, are you educating future European elites?

I believe so. ESCP Business School has been doing this for over 200 years: the university originated in France and, as I mentioned, is the oldest business school in the world. Today, we educate students across six campuses: in Paris, Berlin, London, Madrid, Turin, and Warsaw. These are talented young people from many countries around the world, not just Europe.

After their studies, they find jobs in European or national institutions, or launch their own companies. According to numerous university rankings, ESCP ranks near the top in Europe both in terms of the number of startups founded by its students and their success in securing funding. Recently, we counted 11 unicorns connected to ESCP.

There are countries that would love to have that many.

Recently, the startup Hugging Face, co-founded by our alumnus Clément Delangue, was acquired by Nvidia for nearly $13 billion. The company started in 2016 as a chatbot for teenagers, and today it is one of the most important repositories for open artificial intelligence models.

Today, business is taught at many universities in Europe and around the world. What sets ESCP Business School apart?

First and foremost, the approach to studying. A European and international perspective is embedded into our educational process from the very beginning - it forms its core, rather than being a mere add-on like the Erasmus program, which, by the way, I consider a massive EU achievement.

First, our students acquire knowledge and skills in at least three European locations. They might start their studies in Berlin, for instance, and then live and study in Madrid or Paris. That significantly shapes how they perceive the world.

Second, we encourage them to think in European terms. Every year, over 1,000 students in our flagship Master in Management program participate in the "Designing Europe" seminar, where they discuss the future of Europe - in both economic and political dimensions. They then present their ideas in Brussels or Strasbourg to representatives of EU institutions.

It's no wonder that many graduates later choose careers within European or global structures - like Michel Barnier, former Prime Minister of France and EU Commissioner, or Olivier Blanchard, former Chief Economist at the IMF. After such an international program, it's a natural step.

For years, you have been creating various student exchange programs that allow international students to discover Warsaw as a startup and tech hub where innovations are born. Where did that idea come from? Surely not just out of admiration for the city's history, which we discussed earlier.

For many years, Poland and its economic success were associated in the West primarily with competitive advantages stemming from low labor costs and the inflow of European funds. I want future economic elites to experience Warsaw in person, feel its vibe, meet its people, and above all, realize that it is no longer a site of cheap manufacturing, but a city full of tech talent and a space where modern technologies and solutions vital to the future of Europe are being created.

That is why, back when I was a PhD student at TU Berlin, I established a double-degree program in innovation management between TU Berlin and the SGH Warsaw School of Economics. For a decade now, I have also been bringing a group of selected entrepreneurship students every year for the so-called Warsaw Field Trip, during which we meet with representatives of the Polish tech scene.

I hope that thanks to these experiences, future economic elites will have no doubt about the need for a Polish representative to take part in initiatives such as the "Rhine Group."

Are positive effects from these exchanges already visible?

I think the mere fact that over 500 people from all over the world have passed through these programs, and some of them chose to spend part of their studies in Warsaw, is very significant. Research shows that a personal stay in a given place allows people to view it more favorably. I believe this will pay off in the future - especially when participants take up decision-making positions and influence choices like site selection for new investments or factories.

My favorite story to share is about three female students who came to Warsaw for a one-year stay as part of the double-degree program between SGH and TU Berlin. Later, representing SGH, they entered a competition organized by the French company L’Oréal and qualified for the finals in Paris, where, as Germans, they represented a Polish university. Best of all - they won the entire global competition.

Besides, the trips to Warsaw also produce positive social effects, as one couple who met on these trips has already married (laughs).

Migrants and the Extra Mile

You were born in Poland in 1983, raised in Germany, studied in both countries, and live and work in Berlin. How do you see yourself?

A European. My mother and I left when I was six years old. I have lived in Germany for many years; people around me see me as German, and being German is part of who I am. But my Polish identity is also very important to me. I don't want to choose; I combine both identities.

How was life for you after moving?

It wasn't easy; we had to figure things out to survive. My mother, like thousands of Poles, couldn't work in the profession she had trained for. She became a nurse in Germany. We moved around a bit depending on where work or housing was available, though always within the Heidelberg area. That situation forged a strength of spirit in me - without it, I wouldn't be who I am today.

As an immigrant, did you adapt quickly to your peer group?

When I left, I didn't speak German, but I think I learned the language within a month. I had a very peaceful childhood. I spoke without an accent; people saw me as German. So everyone was honest with me. I could observe how Poland was perceived in Germany during the 1990s.

I'm guessing not very well. Bild's malicious joke: "Go to Poland, your car is already there," didn't come out of nowhere.

You know what surprised me? Almost no one talked about Poland. If my classmate came from France or Spain, they could always say Paris is beautiful or Mallorca is warm, and everyone knew what they were talking about. In those days, it was hard to talk about Poland because, to most people, it was an abstraction.

Today, a lot has changed - around 40 percent of Germans have now been to Poland.

Did the fact that you were an economic migrant, coming from an "exotic" Poland, make you feel inferior?

As I mentioned, those circumstances drove a greater determination in me to succeed. As a researcher, I study migrant behavior in the context of entrepreneurship, and I conclude that their life strategies are always somewhat more "extreme." This can lean toward isolation and closing oneself off in a bubble, but it can also serve as fuel for growth. A migrant will generally walk that extra mile - they will work harder to prove their worth. That was likely the case for me as well.

First Day at SGH

How much did your studies at Heidelberg University influence you?

Fundamentally. I always knew I would go to university, but I fell in love with academic life from day one. I immediately knew I wanted to stay in academia. Heidelberg University is like the German Oxford. You walked into the library and wondered if some Nobel laureate had studied in that very spot before you. That freedom and intellectual ferment were and remain very important to me. Though I ended up studying economics by accident.

By accident?

I wanted to study history, but my friends were going into economics, and my family warned me that I might not get a job with a history degree. Being pragmatic, I listened to them. I figured I would specialize in economic history, but ultimately I deal more with the future of the economy - the business aspects of new technologies and startups (laughs).

You studied in several places: Heidelberg, Frankfurt (Oder), Manchester, St. Gallen, and Warsaw.

I built the model we have today at ESCP Business School on my own initiative (laughs). I took advantage of every opportunity available. I did my bachelor's degree in Frankfurt concurrently with the one in Manchester. While at SGH in Warsaw, I also went to St. Gallen.

I decided to study in Poland because I always wanted to get to know the country where I was born better - not just from vacations on the Baltic coast.

You got to know Poland - and met your future wife.

We bumped into each other on the first day at SGH! Justyna asked me for directions to a lecture hall. First we studied together, and then things just developed (laughs).

How did your future wife react to the idea of moving to Germany after completing master's degrees? For you, it was a return home; for her, a revolution.

It was a joint decision. I received a job offer and an opportunity to pursue a doctorate at TU Berlin. I could have stayed for a PhD at SGH as well, but if financial conditions for doctoral students in Poland are not great today, back then they were very poor.

We went to Germany together, and today neither of us regrets it - Justyna is doing exceptionally well. She always had a talent for languages, acclimated here, and we are developing professionally together.

Poles and German Unicorns

At TU Berlin, you began focusing on entrepreneurship.

In my career, I spent some time at consulting firms and even at Rocket Internet, which built startups in Berlin. So I could have gone into business, but nowhere did I feel as good as in academia. It gave me freedom, independence, and a sense of purpose. That remains true to this day.

How does Professor Matthias Mrożewski - a migrant - look at migrant entrepreneurship?

It is a remarkably fascinating topic. As we discussed, migrants operate under unique conditions, facing greater uncertainty and pressure. That is why they found companies more frequently than others. They are also overrepresented in startups - that is, high-growth tech companies - including the successful ones. Do you know what percentage of unicorns in the United States were founded by immigrants?

The latest report from the National Foundation for American Policy (NFAP) indicates 59 percent.

I came across that data as well. That is extremely high. The United States is in a unique position because people migrate there specifically to launch a startup, for example in Silicon Valley. But we observe a similar phenomenon in Germany.

Is the percentage of migrants among the founders of German unicorns equally high?

Not quite as high. If we assume there are around 40 German unicorns, roughly 30 to 40 percent of them were co-founded by migrants. Migrants make up about 25 percent of the country's total population, so we can see that foreigners are overrepresented among the founders of billion-dollar companies.

As a researcher, you have also analyzed the impact of cultural distance between countries on a migrant's propensity to start a business - meaning the differences between the culture of the origin country and the destination country.

That is known as cultural distance. A large cultural distance generally has a negative impact on foreigners taking up business activities due to cognitive, relational, and psychological barriers. Migrants don't always fully understand the language or legal regulations, and they lack appropriate business contacts.

Although operating at the intersection of two cultures can create a certain informational advantage, in practice, difficulties in adaptation and understanding the local market outweigh the benefits - unless we are dealing with individuals who possess high human capital.

Please elaborate.

It comes down to the level of education and skills. Individuals with high human capital adapt to new conditions faster, overcome language and networking barriers more efficiently, and can better leverage their unique market knowledge. As a result, with a sufficiently high level of education, a large cultural distance can actually turn into an asset and increase self-employment rates.

An asset?

Colloquially speaking, we would say that such individuals are better at connecting the dots. Let me give you an example, though it isn't directly from research - it shows how cultural distance, under the right conditions, can lead to incredible market success. In my view, that is the case with ElevenLabs.

Why?

Mati Staniszewski and Piotr Dąbkowski started with the problem of movie dubbing. And that was a uniquely "Polish" problem - it didn't exist where they were educated and lived. Both graduated from universities in the UK, and additionally, before starting the company, one gained experience and skills at Palantir in London, the other at Google in Zurich. So they were able to look at that "Polish" problem from a completely fresh perspective and solve it in an innovative way.

Are you saying that had they stayed in Poland, operating within a familiar culture, they might not have created today's global leader in AI and voice technologies?

We don't know that. What we do know is that sometimes cultural distance isn't a gulf, but a broadening of perspective. Being in other countries and studying in other countries increases the probability of innovation.

Are there Poles among the creators of German unicorns?

I would point to Jarosław Kutyłowski, who created DeepL in Cologne. Its translator is recognized as one of the best in the world, competing effectively against Google's solutions.

Did any Pole have a particular impact on the development of the startup ecosystem in Berlin, where you live and work?

Łukasz Gadowski. He is a man who built that ecosystem from day one. He is a serial entrepreneur, has been investing in startups for years, and in recent years gained fame by founding Delivery Hero - one of the largest food delivery platforms in the world. The company is valued at over €11 billion on the stock exchange, and this year Uber proposed to buy it out for €13 billion. In my opinion, he would make an excellent subject for Polish Tech Minds (laughs).

About the author

Michał Karbowiak

Journalist and business specialist covering stories that often escape the global media. Connecting Polish innovation with a global perspective.

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